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admin
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Joined: 28 Sep 2000
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 Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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Recently (I think this year) it is no longer illegal to worship the ancient Gods of Greece. It had been illegal to do this for around 1700 years.
Was interested if members see this as "real", or more of an intellectual enterprise. I see it more as intellectuals making a point of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and bringing back part of the History of Greece.
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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It's a great way to promote a culture. Look at Asatru
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When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8210
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| admin wrote: | Recently (I think this year) it is no longer illegal to worship the ancient Gods of Greece. It had been illegal to do this for around 1700 years.
Was interested if members see this as "real", or more of an intellectual enterprise. I see it more as intellectuals making a point of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and bringing back part of the History of Greece. |
Good question, and I think I have an answer.
In one of his books, Sam Harris writes about how he likes to bash Greek gods, because that way he isn't offending anyone. But he says that this was a mistaken assumption, because suddenly he started getting all sorts of hate mail from pagans who *actually* believe in them!
Apparently there are many such people.
I want to know if anyone today still worships Marduk for real.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | admin wrote: | Recently (I think this year) it is no longer illegal to worship the ancient Gods of Greece. It had been illegal to do this for around 1700 years.
Was interested if members see this as "real", or more of an intellectual enterprise. I see it more as intellectuals making a point of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and bringing back part of the History of Greece. |
Good question, and I think I have an answer.
In one of his books, Sam Harris writes about how he likes to bash Greek gods, because that way he isn't offending anyone. But he says that this was a mistaken assumption, because suddenly he started getting all sorts of hate mail from pagans who *actually* believe in them!
Apparently there are many such people.
I want to know if anyone today still worships Marduk for real. |
Or any of the Canaanite gods or godesses such as Baal or Ashtoreth; or any of the Egyptian gods or godesses such as Ra or Isis. And so on.
I figure if they are going to adopt their religions then they'll want to adapt to their medical, hygenic, and social practices as well as all these where tied into their respective pagan beliefs and customs - in order to get the 'full religious experience'.
LOL! |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8210
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| Ryck wrote: |
I figure if they are going to adopt their religions then they'll want to adapt to their medical, hygenic, and social practices as well as all these where tied into their respective pagan beliefs and customs - in order to get the 'full religious experience'.
LOL! |
Do you think that Christians washed their hands before eating in the 1st century? In fact, there is at least one major Christian sect TODAY which still rejects the germ theory of disease.
As for social practices, in the Bible it tells you to stone your wife to death on her father's doorstep if upon your wedding night you discover she is not a virgin. It also tells you to kill people for working on Sundays and to kill your children if they talk back to you.
Full religious experience indeed!
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
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"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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pastor2022
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| Quote: | | to kill your children if they talk back to you. |
I thought about that one from time to time when my kids were growing up! 
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8210
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:19 am Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| pastor2022 wrote: | | Quote: | | to kill your children if they talk back to you. |
I thought about that one from time to time when my kids were growing up! |
It wouldn't be hard to justify this using scripture:
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and, though they discipline him, will not listen to them, (19) then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, (20) and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ (21) Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Exodus 21:15-17 ESV “Whoever strikes his father or his mother shall be put to death. (16) “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death. (17) “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.
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"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Ryck
Lion King
Joined: 05 Dec 2002
Posts: 1094
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| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Ryck wrote: |
I figure if they are going to adopt their religions then they'll want to adapt to their medical, hygenic, and social practices as well as all these where tied into their respective pagan beliefs and customs - in order to get the 'full religious experience'.
LOL! |
Do you think that Christians washed their hands before eating in the 1st century? In fact, there is at least one major Christian sect TODAY which still rejects the germ theory of disease.
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Cleanliness is a good idea. Since Christianity sprang from Judaism I'm sure Christians didn't object to washing. But the point is what did the pagans do? I happen to know that the Egyptians used various animal feces in their medicines under the belief that by making the body disgusting internally, externally, or both you'd drive away the disease causing spirit and gain your good health in the process.
So for anyone who wants to practice the religion of the ancient Egyptians - there you are.
| Quote: |
As for social practices, in the Bible it tells you to stone your wife to death on her father's doorstep if upon your wedding night you discover she is not a virgin. It also tells you to kill people for working on Sundays and to kill your children if they talk back to you.
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If all were on the same page, what father would misrepresent his daughter as a virgin if she was not? Or what woman would misrepresent herself as a virgin if she was not?
I believe it was a deterrent rather than a daily practice. 
I know of no Scripture that says that you are killed for working on Sundays or if a child simply talks back at you. Maybe you can show me the Scripture you have in mind.
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Full religious experience indeed! |
If they want to do as the Romans, the Greeks, the Canaanites, the Egyptians, or whatever did, then do as the Romans, Greeks, Canaanites, Egyptians, or whatever did. |
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Zathrus
King Kong
Joined: 28 Aug 2002
Posts: 2270
Location: WI USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| admin wrote: | | Was interested if members see this as "real", or more of an intellectual enterprise. |
I was gonna say it sounded like an academic exercise. Or maybe the gov't in Greece has too much time on their hands.
I was surprised to read that there are people who do believe in them.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8210
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| Ryck wrote: |
I know of no Scripture that says that you are killed for working on Sundays or if a child simply talks back at you. Maybe you can show me the Scripture you have in mind.
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Sure, here are some relevant passages:
Exo 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exo 21:17
And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Deut 21:18-21
If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die
There are a bunch more. This one orders you to kill male homosexuals:
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"
You must also kill adulterers and adulteresses:
Lev 20:10
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
The next time you hear someone say, "God d*mn", you are required by the Bible to kill them, preferably with stones:
Lev 24:16
And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.
Girls who are found not to have a hymen on their wedding night must be killed:
Deuteronomy 22:21-24
"But if the thing is true, that the tokens of virginity were not found in the young woman, then they shall bring out the young woman to the door of her father's house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death with stones
And here's the best one of all; you are explicitly commanded by the Bible to kill anyone who does not follow ALL of God's commandments:
Josh 1:18
Whosoever he be that doth rebel against thy commandment, and will not hearken unto thy words in all that thou commandest him, he shall be put to death: only be strong and of a good courage.
Think about the significance of this one for a second. Not only are you obliged to kill everyone who has ever worked on a Sunday, but God commanded all of his followers to kill people who work on Sundays, and this commandment is ordering you to kill anyone who violated a commandment. That means that you have to kill anyone who hasn't killed people for working on Sundays!
Wow, imagine what the world would be like if people actually followed the Bible!
Isn't it obvious that it's a very barbaric book?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Posts: 5285
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| P123 wrote: | | The next time you hear someone say, "God d*mn", you are required by the Bible to kill them, preferably with stones: |
If you said that to me, I'd just have to have your mouth washed out with soap!!
Nobby |
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8210
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Nobby wrote: | | P123 wrote: | | The next time you hear someone say, "God d*mn", you are required by the Bible to kill them, preferably with stones: |
If you said that to me, I'd just have to have your mouth washed out with soap!!
Nobby |
That's very enlightened of you, but then you wouldn't be following the commandments of the Bible, and someone who really does follow it by Josh 1:18 would have to kill you for not killing me!
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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Nobby
Board - Admin
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Posts: 5285
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yes P123, it's nice to have a new covenant, and not have to obey those laws anymore. 
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ShardikSon
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Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 589
Location: Aux Arcs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| P1234567890 wrote: | | Ryck wrote: |
I know of no Scripture that says that you are killed for working on Sundays or if a child simply talks back at you. Maybe you can show me the Scripture you have in mind.
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Sure, here are some relevant passages:
...
Isn't it obvious that it's a very barbaric book? |
Life was a lot tougher back then, and tribal survival could rely on the members being in accord with the tribe. Those were barbaric times.
| Quote: | | Wow, imagine what the world would be like if people actually followed the Bible! |
Wow, we would probably have a lot fewer people boinking their neighbors' wives.
We would have a lot fewer nasty, disrespectful young people. (not to mention a lot fewer nasty disrespectful old people  )
We would have a lot fewer neighbors out mowing their lawns on Sunday morning while you tried to sleep through your hangover, and when you shot them, you would be praised for obeying the scriptures.
I don't see the problem.
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P1234567890
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 8210
Location: Victoria, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Worship of Zeus in Greece |
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| ShardikSon wrote: |
Life was a lot tougher back then, and tribal survival could rely on the members being in accord with the tribe. Those were barbaric times. |
...Except that a lot of people use the Bible as a guide TODAY.
| ShardikSon wrote: |
| Quote: | | Wow, imagine what the world would be like if people actually followed the Bible! |
Wow, we would probably have a lot fewer people boinking their neighbors' wives.
We would have a lot fewer nasty, disrespectful young people. (not to mention a lot fewer nasty disrespectful old people )
We would have a lot fewer neighbors out mowing their lawns on Sunday morning while you tried to sleep through your hangover, and when you shot them, you would be praised for obeying the scriptures.
I don't see the problem.
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It sounds like Christianity has done wonders for your morals. Is this your Jesus?
_________________
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction."
-Blaise Pascal
"...with or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil -that takes religion..."
-Steven Weinberg
"I would bless my children with your destruction instead."
-Someone who shall remain anonymous. |
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