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T.L. Means (Thomas)
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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 Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Genesis Prophecy-Time versus Eternity |
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Is a day of God's creation equal to 24 hours or 208,000,000 hours equaling 1000 years? There were seven days of creation mentioned in the first book of Genesis and when a person thinks about eternity, we might ask; how did one day equal in the span of time? Keep in mind that eternity and time are differrent from each other.
Apostle Peter said, "one day with the Lord is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as one day." I can imagine from this scripture that each day of creation equals a day equating to a 1000 years in time (Not Eternity). A life with God is unlike the days of our lives and God had a reason for time to exist because sin actually began in the heavenlies (Not Heaven) before man was even created. "Pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall." Who was this wisdom relative to that was the cause and effect of time to exist? What day of creation was this supra-mundane being created and why did God cast out this sinner. |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Answer to post Time versus Eternity |
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The millenium year mentioned in Revelation 20:1-6 is and indication of the one day with the Lord is a thousand years and thousand years is one day theology.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from Heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
Rev 20:3 And he cast him into the abyss and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little time.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the Word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast nor his image, nor had received his mark on their foreheads, nor in their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. The second death has no authority over these, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him a thousand years.
In the beginning God's timing was increments of a 1000 years for each day created. I'm not a rocket scientist but the oldest living man in the flesh (sin nature) was Me-thu-se-lah:
Gen 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred and sixty-nine years. And he died.
Adam lived 930 years according to Genesis 5:5 but we must not forget the time spent with God before the fall (70 years). Technically you could say Adam is older than dirt because he (male and female) was created in the image and likeness of God during Day 6 of creation:
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
Gen 1:27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.
Another thought to consider is; do you think Adam had 24 hours to name all the beast, foul of the air, and sea creatures, after all he wasn't God. I think his timing in naming them was out of enjoyment and then is loneliness for his other half caught up with him. You must admit, God made man to work and that is what Adam did, and it was pleasing to the Creator.
The depths of this 1000 year increment way of thinking has unlocked serveral key issues to the why Christ had to come 2000 years ago and why it took God 4000 thousand years to send His only begotten Son. After all the Revelation is TRUTH (The Revelation Unveiled Through HIS-tory).
| Quote: | | Apostle Peter said, "one day with the Lord is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as one day." I can imagine from this scripture that each day of creation equals a day equating to a 1000 years in time (Not Eternity). A life with God is unlike the days of our lives and God had a reason for time to exist because sin actually began in the heavenlies (Not Heaven) before man was even created. "Pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall." Who was this wisdom relative to that was the cause and effect of time to exist? What day of creation was this supra-mundane being created and why did God cast out this sinner. |
I'm still waiting for some soul to answer the questions to this quote. Now that I've unlocked my way of thinking that I believe is the mind of God, please someone respond. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6281
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: Re: Genesis Prophecy-Time versus Eternity |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | Apostle Peter said, "one day with the Lord is as a 1000 years and a 1000 years is as one day." I can imagine from this scripture that each day of creation equals a day equating to a 1000 years in time (Not Eternity). |
Or you can imagine that Peter was simply admonishing those that kept bothering him about when the end of the world was coming.
And bonus! One of these imaginings is actually right!
I mean did you even bother to read 2 Peter 3 or just say "hey this one verse is neat"? It's amazing how far backwards Christians are willing to bend over a set of verses that simply do not leave any room for this nonsensical "day age" creationism. It's saying that each step was a day--and it's not using metaphorical language when it does it. Either the passages are meant as historical truth or entirely as a sort of cultural history that should in this day and age only be taken metaphorically. That you're willing to bend the word of scripture to fit things which prove that it is literally wrong means it's time to take it as metaphor, not bend it to fit anyway.
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | A life with God is unlike the days of our lives and God had a reason for time to exist because sin actually began in the heavenlies (Not Heaven) before man was even created. |
Well, no. The idea of a fallen angel didn't enter the theology until Christians borrowed pagan ideas. There's no evidence in the Old Testament or even the Gospels (I'm not as sure about the Gospels) of there being sin in Heaven before man.
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | Another thought to consider is; do you think Adam had 24 hours to name all the beast, foul of the air, and sea creatures, after all he wasn't God. |
Different stories. Besides, the animals were created on days five and six, before man, then man was created to rule over them. Or they were created after man as companions, but not with any sort of day restriction. The first story has the day restriction but does not say that the naming took place within a day. Please stop adding to scripture?
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Re: Genesis Prophecy-Time versus Eternity |
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| Quote: | | FFT wrote: I mean did you even bother to read 2 Peter 3 or just say "hey this one verse is neat"? It's amazing how far backwards Christians are willing to bend over a set of verses that simply do not leave any room for this nonsensical "day age" creationism. |
Your judgemental critism that I've bent over to make the scripture nonsensical "day age" creationism is far from the truth. I 've shown to you in this post age and time of people of the bible and the oldest of them was 960 years of age. The thought after that was the age of Adam at 930 years of age after the fall and time before the fall can only be speculitive of 70 years. I place my self in position to say that Peter new men of old from the linage of faith and therefore his statement was reflective of the closes thing time reflected in years.
How are you or anyone else for that matter to determine what Peter was thinking, but by the Spirit of God. I know the scripture and yes Peter was working against the mockery of those days. I assure you Peter was full of the Holy Spirit and sometimes people who are not can't think the depths of God's understanding because of their limit ability to God and His truth of scripture.
| Quote: | | FFT wrote: Well, no. The idea of a fallen angel didn't enter the theology until Christians borrowed pagan ideas. There's no evidence in the Old Testament or even the Gospels (I'm not as sure about the Gospels) of there being sin in Heaven before man. |
KJV: Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
MKJV: Isa 14:11 Your pride is brought down to the grave, and the noise of your harps. The maggot is spread under you, and the worms cover you.
Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from the heavens, O shining star, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.
Isa 14:14 I will go up above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the Pit.
I rest my case that the Devil (Lucifer) did fall from heaven because it was the sin of pride that brought him down. So answer the question of what day in creation Lucifer was created and when did he fall and why did God create time? |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6281
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | How are you or anyone else for that matter to determine what Peter was thinking, but by the Spirit of God. |
It's called context. The context of 2 Peter 3:8 explains exactly what he meant.
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | KJV: Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
MKJV: Isa 14:11 Your pride is brought down to the grave, and the noise of your harps. The maggot is spread under you, and the worms cover you.
Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from the heavens, O shining star, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.
Isa 14:14 I will go up above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the Pit.
I rest my case that the Devil (Lucifer) did fall from heaven because it was the sin of pride that brought him down. |
That's cool, but you're wrong. Isaiah 14:11-15 isn't about "Lucifer." "Lucifer" is the Latin translation of "eosphorous" which was the Greek translation of "helel." All of which mean "morning star." It's a reference to a minor Ugaritic deity who attempted to take the throne of El--the leader of the pantheon--after his death. El returned to life and cast the guy down mount Zaphon as punishment.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with Hebrew theology, it's Isaiah admonishing Nebuchadnezzar (or possibly a similar upstart in Neb's court) using a mythological reference he'd understand.
I mean, do you actually believe that there's a "mount of congregation" in Hebrew theology? Because it's talking about the Ugaritic analog to Mount Olympus.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Isa 47:12 Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.
Isa 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
Isa 47:14 Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.
Your recent post is a clarifying testimony that you are lost among the Greek Mythology and Isaiah knew all to well of those who were then and now in the folly of conformity to this world. I will not answer your post from here on out until you can believe by faith and not by another interpretation to what you think God's Infalliable Word means. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6281
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | Your recent post is a clarifying testimony that you are lost among the Greek Mythology and Isaiah knew all to well of those who were then and now in the folly of conformity to this world. |
Uh. What? The only bit of Greek mythology I talked about was comparing the Ugaritic Mount Zaphon to the Greek Olympus to help you understand what it was supposed to be. What on Earth are you going on about?
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | I will not answer your post from here on out until you can believe by faith and not by another interpretation to what you think God's Infalliable Word means. |
Your "believing by faith" has led you entirely astray from the facts of the matter. What I've shown you is the result of study, of challenging what I already believed. If you can't handle that, fine.
Just don't expect to be taken seriously.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
Kitten
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Genesis Prophecy-Time versus Eternity |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | God had a reason for time to exist because sin actually began in the heavenlies (Not Heaven) before man was even created. "Pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall." Who was this wisdom relative to that was the cause and effect of time to exist? What day of creation was this supra-mundane being created and why did God cast out this sinner. |
The disturbing fact is we are in a spiritual battle and we are not to wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, spiritual wickedness in high places, against rulers of darkness of this world. I've set myself to search and destroy the forces of evil through prayer and supplication and with thanksgiving.
The word of God is clear to me that even man can be an opposing force in the good proclaimed. Paul encouraged Timothy to be committed; 1 Timothy 4:20,21 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babbling, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen'.
The Bible is the infallable word of God and its a spiritual battle that during the existence of time has actively forever been going on between God and Lucifier.
KJV: Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
MKJV: Isa 14:11 Your pride is brought down to the grave, and the noise of your harps. The maggot is spread under you, and the worms cover you.
Isa 14:12 How you are fallen from the heavens, O shining star, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, you who weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13 For you have said in your heart, I will go up to the heavens, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north.
Isa 14:14 I will go up above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the Most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to hell, to the sides of the Pit.
The eyes of the fools have been blinded and continuely refuse to see the truth of God's word. God has taking the foolish things of God to confound the wise and the weakness of God is mightier than man. That is why it does'nt take a rocket scientist to know God's truth and to follow science as the answer to God's will can never get to the bottom line of God's understanding.
Man's knowledge through science has lived only a short life span (short) but the word of God is eternity. The word is taught by God's Spirit to build our faith and it does not take the knowledge of man's science to know God.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
To prove my point that the science man will attack this forum, I will say that God sacrificed an animal on an alter and then He blessed and clothed Adam and Eve before their departure. The scripture to back my claim is what God did for them both in Genesis 3:21 (Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.)...
There is a depth to God that science can't tap but the Spirit can and if we walk in the Spirit then God can tap His followers with spiritual meaning. |
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FFT
Emperor of the Universe
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 6281
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | The Bible is the infallable word of God and its a spiritual battle that during the existence of time has actively forever been going on between God and Lucifier. |
I simply will never understand how people can on the one hand believe in an all-powerful deity and on the other insist that this omnipotent being is locked in an immortal struggle with a being that is not omnipotent.
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | The eyes of the fools have been blinded and continuely refuse to see the truth of God's word. |
You are refusing to see the "truth of God's Word." Nothing is impossible for God, how could any being even cause trouble for God much less be engaged in an eternal battle with Him?
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | To prove my point that the science man will attack this forum, I will say that God sacrificed an animal on an alter and then He blessed and clothed Adam and Eve before their departure. The scripture to back my claim is what God did for them both in Genesis 3:21 (Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.)... |
Now you're just making things up. What altar? Where does it say anything about an altar?
"Science man"?
| T.L. Means (Thomas) wrote: | | There is a depth to God that science can't tap but the Spirit can and if we walk in the Spirit then God can tap His followers with spiritual meaning. |
The problem is your "walking in the spirit" is inconsistent with both the Bible and reality, which is remarkable.
_________________
When Science was in its crib, Religion tried to strangle it. When Science was in its infancy, Religion tried to abuse it. Now that Science is grown up, Religion wants to be in its good graces.
Theology is philosophy/ethics for people who already know what conclusion they want to come to. |
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T.L. Means (Thomas)
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Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 140
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| Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Questions Answered |
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| Quote: | | Thomas wrote: God had a reason for time to exist because sin actually began in the heavenlies (Not Heaven) before man was even created. "Pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall." Who was this wisdom relative to that was the cause and effect of time to exist? What day of creation was this supra-mundane being created and why did God cast out this sinner. |
I answered who the supra-mundane being is (Lucifer=Fallen Angel) in accordance with Old Testement scripture and this same supra-mundane will be cast down for good the next time around when Christ returns.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
The sin Satan and his followers committed was built up over a 4000 year period of time and the day of creation for God's supra-mudane was the 2nd day when the creation of Heaven occured.
Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
The latter part of the questioning is why the rebellious Angels where cast out of the heavenlies upon the earth and that was the leader's pride.
There is a depth to God that science can't tap but the Spirit can and if we walk in the Spirit then God can tap His followers with spiritual meaning. |
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